Graphic Ripping
Graphic Ripping
As requested, and something I think needs a bit of discussion; graphics ripping, is it a good thing, a bad thing, or does it depend?
I myself am of the opinion that it depends; not just on how well it's done, but on how you go about it. For example, I have no problem with a mod made entirely of ripped graphics, it could be cool if done right, the best looking things from several keeners, but if you didn't ask first, then blatantly passed it off as your own work, then you're being a bit dangerous there Dave, and risking copyright infringement.
I myself can't resist ripping sometimes, sometimes there just isn't a better way to do something, and I just have to admit 'No, I couldn't improve on that.' (You can see it from what little work I've done.) Mind you, some of my more contentious ripping *was* free stuff until the author decided he wanted them back...
On a related note is ripping with modification, and I'm not just talking about recoloring. I think this blends into 'inspired by' since I'm sure a lot of us have seen something and thought 'Wow, I bet I could use that'; indeed, mods like AvK can be considered to be at the far end of this.
So, have you ripped? What's your stance on it? Would you mind if others ripped your stuff? If they didn't give you credit?
I myself am of the opinion that it depends; not just on how well it's done, but on how you go about it. For example, I have no problem with a mod made entirely of ripped graphics, it could be cool if done right, the best looking things from several keeners, but if you didn't ask first, then blatantly passed it off as your own work, then you're being a bit dangerous there Dave, and risking copyright infringement.
I myself can't resist ripping sometimes, sometimes there just isn't a better way to do something, and I just have to admit 'No, I couldn't improve on that.' (You can see it from what little work I've done.) Mind you, some of my more contentious ripping *was* free stuff until the author decided he wanted them back...
On a related note is ripping with modification, and I'm not just talking about recoloring. I think this blends into 'inspired by' since I'm sure a lot of us have seen something and thought 'Wow, I bet I could use that'; indeed, mods like AvK can be considered to be at the far end of this.
So, have you ripped? What's your stance on it? Would you mind if others ripped your stuff? If they didn't give you credit?
I think everything that I have to say has already been said.
Although it's probably not *good* to rip graphics, it's definitely better than having a modder draw some bland, boring graphics. And it's not bad, either, unless the modder is claiming the work as their own (which I don't think anyone here has done)
I don't think I have any ripped graphics in my own mod, although the earlier versions of it had some original Keen graphics in it (including Keen from 4-6, recolo(u)red to look like Mort.) Those were all removed, though (unless I missed a few...)
Although it's probably not *good* to rip graphics, it's definitely better than having a modder draw some bland, boring graphics. And it's not bad, either, unless the modder is claiming the work as their own (which I don't think anyone here has done)
I don't think I have any ripped graphics in my own mod, although the earlier versions of it had some original Keen graphics in it (including Keen from 4-6, recolo(u)red to look like Mort.) Those were all removed, though (unless I missed a few...)
Well said! Ha ha.then you're being a bit dangerous there Dave, and risking copyright infringement.
As I said before I ripped and je ne regrette rien.
I even started that topic "where do you get your mod graphics from" as I assumed more modders have different sources for their graphics, not only plain self-pixeling.
I generally do all my sprites myself, mostly based on sketches I drew when I was a kid and dreamed of being able to create my own Keen game.
Other things like background objects I usually look around in other mods/games if there is something useful and looking gewd.
Silcar 4 was a bit different as most of it is based on old drawings even some of the levels.
I like to see some stuff I know already, used in a new way.
I even started that topic "where do you get your mod graphics from" as I assumed more modders have different sources for their graphics, not only plain self-pixeling.
I generally do all my sprites myself, mostly based on sketches I drew when I was a kid and dreamed of being able to create my own Keen game.
Other things like background objects I usually look around in other mods/games if there is something useful and looking gewd.
Silcar 4 was a bit different as most of it is based on old drawings even some of the levels.
I like to see some stuff I know already, used in a new way.
- The Shifted One
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- Location: Utopia
As a general rule I try not to rip graphics from any source but the original Keens and my own previous mods, and in the case of the originals, I usually try to limit it to graphics that were featured in more than one episode.
This being said, I do collect inspiration from other games and mods and might rip a graphic as a base and 'redraw' it how I'd like to feature it, or just straight up redraw it. A good example of this is my Oracle Janitor 2, in which the stone bricks and skull tiles are directly inspired from Hocus Pocus. Not ripped or copied, but basically me looking at a screenshot and drawing it in ms paint.
I'm usually dissapointed to see ripped graphics in other people's mods. It leaves me hesitant to give praise since praise might not be deserved (and for those that mix ripped and their own, the same goes; you might not get praise for your work, regardless of how good it is, because people will suspect its ripped). If you don't like doing graphics, go for it, but it seems less than ideal.
I'd encourage anyone who relies on ripping graphics to at least try modifying them; for example, my first mod Gobo III pretty obviously uses modified yorp and garg graphics, but they're also different enough (in my opinion) that they're not just a recolored yorp and garg. This is, in my opinion, an easy and a good way to learn to draw Keen graphics.
As to people ripping my stuff, eh, I don't really care, even if they claimed it as their own or gave me no credit (it has happened several times, but like I said, I don't really care). This being said, I did really enjoy seeing some of my characters in Tulip's (2nd?) mod (i think anyway), but this isnt really the same thing as graphic ripping.
This being said, I do collect inspiration from other games and mods and might rip a graphic as a base and 'redraw' it how I'd like to feature it, or just straight up redraw it. A good example of this is my Oracle Janitor 2, in which the stone bricks and skull tiles are directly inspired from Hocus Pocus. Not ripped or copied, but basically me looking at a screenshot and drawing it in ms paint.
I'm usually dissapointed to see ripped graphics in other people's mods. It leaves me hesitant to give praise since praise might not be deserved (and for those that mix ripped and their own, the same goes; you might not get praise for your work, regardless of how good it is, because people will suspect its ripped). If you don't like doing graphics, go for it, but it seems less than ideal.
I'd encourage anyone who relies on ripping graphics to at least try modifying them; for example, my first mod Gobo III pretty obviously uses modified yorp and garg graphics, but they're also different enough (in my opinion) that they're not just a recolored yorp and garg. This is, in my opinion, an easy and a good way to learn to draw Keen graphics.
As to people ripping my stuff, eh, I don't really care, even if they claimed it as their own or gave me no credit (it has happened several times, but like I said, I don't really care). This being said, I did really enjoy seeing some of my characters in Tulip's (2nd?) mod (i think anyway), but this isnt really the same thing as graphic ripping.
Ha, if you're referring to me, my offer still stands to draw you up some new stuff :PMind you, some of my more contentious ripping *was* free stuff until the author decided he wanted them back...
Oh I accept that offer, though I have done some redrawing of my own. (I'm sorry Ceilick, your stuff just wasn't good enough for me. ;p )
I'm not sure if graphic ripping stifles creativity though; of course, if you're just going 'Oh that looks neat' and copy/pasting, then you're not likely to get much done in the way of inventiveness, but the copy and redraw I think has some interesting possibilities.
I'm not sure if graphic ripping stifles creativity though; of course, if you're just going 'Oh that looks neat' and copy/pasting, then you're not likely to get much done in the way of inventiveness, but the copy and redraw I think has some interesting possibilities.
- The Shifted One
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I second this... I've drawn all my mod art from scratch (if you don't count the recoloured and edited yorp replacement in Yorphius II...), and think it's so much more interesting to play a mod with graphics you haven't already seen in other mods or games.The Shifted One wrote:I believe graphic ripping holds back creativity.
Id rather see new stuff being drew then other things recycled.
- CommanderSpleen
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I was going to mention this, but in the context that it's a good thing when done well. It works well with true hiphop most of the time, but when it comes to dance music and R&B, for example, it seems there's a rule of thumb that demands they do it very poorly. Nothing is black and white--there are 14 other colours between the two.Benvolio wrote:It's akin to sampling music (in dance, hiphop etc) which really annoys me!
I liked tulip's work, though I'm yet to play most of his mods through. From what I've seen, he took some very nice tiles and put them together in a very pleasing way. I'd honestly like to see some more works like that, and have a project lined up that will borrow heavily from other mods' tiles.
If a modder rips graphics and puts them together in interesting ways, and endeavours to include a list of sources somewhere in a readme or an acknowledgements section ingame, I'm all for it. As long as they don't pull a Madonna and butcher a perfectly good Abba riff into a so-called 'dance' song...