Game Objectives Rantage: Episode One

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Deltamatic
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Post by Deltamatic »

Some rantage:

1. The first part of the game, before Keen meets the slug king, lacks focus.
2. How to ensure that Keen gets the quest before going on it, keeping in mind that the quest-giving level remains unflagged "done" on exit to serve as a lock preventing Keen from getting further quests before finishing the one he's on, and as such would not be able to stand in his path, allowing Keen access to quest levels before he actually gets the quest?
3. The Licks have nothing for Keen to do if he joins them.
4. The last part of the game, before the mine shaft, lacks focus.

Possible solutions:

1. Keen doesn't quest for a pogo at the beginning, but rather for some ammo. A Slug hermit tells him about an ammo stash, maybe the only ammo in the game. Of course this ammo stash happens to be right next to a teleporter leading to Slug Town.
2. I have no idea on this one...
3. For the Licks, Keen could bury an encamped Slug army under a gigantic pancake (think rope), due to an obscure Slug law that banishes anybody covered in pancake. In the next level, Keen sees bedraggled Slug soldiers with some bits of pancake still clinging to them preparing covered wagons with "Shadowlands Or Bust" written in SGA on their sides. There's a cart full of picks labeled "Statue Building Materials" along with them.
4. Just something pointing out the mine shaft as your goal would be good.
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doomjedi
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Post by doomjedi »

Deltamatic wrote:3. The Licks have nothing for Keen to do if he joins them.
Well, he can steal the slug poison antidote from slugs, or their barrels of poison.
Or maybe a slug costume so licks can trick the slugs and enter their villages.
1. Keen doesn't quest for a pogo at the beginning, but rather for some ammo.
Lame IMO, sorry :(
He can seek for water and food though.
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Deltamatic
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Post by Deltamatic »

Yeah, that's definitely less wacky than a giant pancake.

Food and water is nice. Maybe Keen finds a restaurant in the tree city.
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CommanderSpleen
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Post by CommanderSpleen »

1. The early part of the game can focus on exploration, and only introduce the slug quest upon entering the bridge level.

2. What if the slugs give Keen an item that grants him access to the lick territory? That way, there won't be any danger of stumbling into the peppering scenario before knowing the reason. The bridge can consist of two levels: the quest assignment, and the guard post that prevents access until the peppering is accomplished.

How will that quest appear in the inventory? Simply a pepper icon with a check mark superimposed upon it?

3. This is only an issue if we decide to include the plot fork approach. It would require reworking my above 2. solution. I love the pancake thing. It must be used somewhere at least...

4. The storyline should state this goal clearly, but it needn't necessarily explain how to go about it. Exploration will be key. This approach worked well enough in most of the original games.
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doomjedi
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Post by doomjedi »

CommanderSpleen wrote:2. What if the slugs give Keen an item that grants him access to the lick territory?
Why would slugs have the item to enter licks territory?....isn't it something only licks should have? Why would licks give slugs such an item?
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Post by levellass »

'Here, have this thing to sneak into the Lick lands, we use it for raids'

'Here, take this thing we stole from a Lick'

'Why don't you use or thing, then you can attack the Licks for us!'
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Deltamatic
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Post by Deltamatic »

CommanderSpleen wrote:4. The storyline should state this goal clearly, but it needn't necessarily explain how to go about it. Exploration will be key. This approach worked well enough in most of the original games.
Perfect!

I think I didn't explain 2 well enough. It's an issue I discovered while thinking about the world map.
Let's say Keen has just arrived at the Slug village. There's the first quest level, the one where the Slug king tells Keen to get the pepper, just ahead.
But there are other Slug village levels behind it--the one where Keen's asked to pepper the Lick banquet, and the bridge level where Keen is rewarded by being allowed across the bridge (if he followed the Slug side of the plot).
So what happens when Keen finishes the first quest level? Does it get replaced with a "DONE" marker on the world map, allowing Keen to go straight to the second quest level? And then straight to the bridge? That wouldn't do. So the level is patched to not be replaced with a "DONE" marker when Keen finishes it, but it will be replaced with a "DONE" marker when Keen finishes the quest so he can move on to the next quest.
This means, though, that before Keen finishes the quest, the quest-giving level is a roadblock. We can't have it be between him and the levels where he actually does the quest.
So that means that Keen could completely skip the quest-giving level and go straight to the quest!
I guess that there's a potential solution: wording the Slug king's messages so the second and third times you meet him could be interpreted as the first time you meet him by quest-giving-level-skipping players while still being relevant to people who didn't skip the quest-giving level, and wording the messages in quest levels so that quest-giving-level-skipping players could think that Keen was just exploring around while still being relevant to players who didn't skip the quest-giving level.
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Deltamatic
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Post by Deltamatic »

Our fearless leader wrote:Throw in one more quest between the slugs/licks and the mine shaft and, combined with classic map progression blocking levels, maybe with a couple of alternate paths, should complete things. From there we can start divvying the objectives and the items necessary to complete them into appropriate levels. Then levels can be put into physical locations.
About time I followed through with this.

EXPLORE AROUND A BIT

Crashed BwB
__Map forks between algal pool and forest.
Algal Pool
__Map forks between geyser and canyon.
Geyser
Canyon
Forest
__Canyon and forest both lead to tree city.
Tree City
__Teleporter book to slug town.

RETRIEVE PEPPER QUICKLY

__Plot forks between retrieve pepper quickly and treasure eater.
Slug town 1
Estuary ford
__Map forks between swamps 1 and 2.
Swamp 1
Swamp 2
__Swamps 1 and 2 both lead to cemetery.
Cemetery

SPICE UP LICK BANQUET

Slug town 2
Waterfall
Lick city
__Plot forks between spice up lick banquet and on second thought don't.
Lick moat/gatehouse
Lick castle

AT EPISODE'S END

Slug bridge
Meadow
__Map forks between beach, misty woods and foothills.
Beach
Misty woods
Foothills
Mine shaft

TREASURE EATER

Archaeological site 1
__Map forks between archaeological sites 2 and 3.
Archaeological site 2
Archaeological site 3
__Archaeological sites 2 and 3 both lead to 4.
Archaeological site 4

ON SECOND THOUGHT DON'T

__Map forks between rainbow and lake.
Rainbow
__Plot forks between on second thought don't and secretive secrety secrets.
Lake
Stream
Mine shaft

SECRETIVE SECRETY SECRETS

Secret area 1
__Map forks between secret areas 2 and 3.
Secret area 2
Secret area 3

Notes:
The in-level messages still have to be written up and approved.
Crashed BwB has Keen starting up in a tree, as per story text.
There could be a restaurant in the tree city with a slug who mentions the teleporter books.
By algal pool, I mean something like this.
A challenge with the archaeological site will be making it look nothing like DitD.
The pancake quest is contained in the lake (text describing mission, mission itself) and stream (mission reward) levels.
Last edited by Deltamatic on Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:45 am, edited 2 times in total.
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CommanderSpleen
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Post by CommanderSpleen »

I think I follow. at least the map forks makes sense. But how do the plot forks work here? And what is the basic story progression you're using?
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Deltamatic
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Post by Deltamatic »

A plot fork means that at that point the player has a choice between continuing the current plot (section of levels with CAPITAL LETTERS at top) or jumping to the beginning of the different one indicated. Plot fork wasn't the best name for it, might've called it "level group fork". The only true plot fork is the one between spice up and on second thought. With the secret levels one you can return to the plot you forked from, and with the treasure eater one you can return and go to it at any time, as long as you haven't switched to on second thought in which case you can't go to it. Hope that cleared things up.
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Post by CommanderSpleen »

Alrighty, that makes sense. This sounds like a viable setup.

What happens if you choose the pancake mission (ON SECOND THOUGHT DON'T)? And how is it chosen? In fact, that should be specified for each 'plot fork'.

As for the previous rant... as far as I'm aware there should be two levels for the bridge: the quest initiation and the reward level. We'll use the Keen4 flags patch, as it can disable DONE signs and allow some more dynamic level blocking effects. A blocking section can be placed at the bridge, linked to the level in which the peppering takes place.

Hmm, though if that alternative pancake attack option is used, the bridge level will still be made accessible...

Doors on map modified to test for a certain inventory item instead of a keycard? But then the Lick level needs to have two different means of completing the level, each with an alternative set of effects.

Put a statue in a level leading up to the pepper target level posing the option of taking the Licks' side, and offer a second level from whence the pancake mix is retrieved?

I dunno... I'm pretty confused here, and have no idea of the technical aspect of what's the story is doing and what's possible to make it happen...
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Deltamatic
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Post by Deltamatic »

This calls for a graphical representation.
Image
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doomjedi
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Post by doomjedi »

Ok...I'll see what I can do....though I don't expect anything to be made before Saturday.
Map icons and themes seems a fun thing to do. Maybe others will start on "in-level" theme art...
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Post by levellass »

DM, couldn't you have made that a bit neater? Flow diagrams aren't hard to set up.
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Deltamatic
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Post by Deltamatic »

Sorry... I was keeping it roughly relating to where things would be on the map.
I've noticed a problem with it, too: the big fork between Slugs and Licks is with an on-world-map teleporter. So the player could finish the Slug plot, not enter the mine shaft level, go over to the Lick teleporter and finish the Lick plot.
This could be solved by making the Slug/Lick fork teleporter be the in-level teleporter, but then what would the secret level teleporter be?
Maybe once the player's finished the rainbow level, there could be a small path of walkable area behind it that leads to behind the waterfall. Guided by stereotypes about goodies behind waterfalls, the player would walk over to discover that, yes, the area behind the waterfall was walkable. Then, thinking that it was the location of the secret level, the player would press control--only to find himself teleported to a whole secret area.
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